Ceramic Powder in Paint Slashes Energy Costs?
Today’s Parade Magazine mentioned that putting ceramic powder in paint can help save on energy costs. Since I’m going through a home office re-design project and the painters are coming next week, of course I’m interested.
The problem is — my painter never heard of such a thing! He asked if the Parade Magazine article gave any info on where to get the stuff. Or how much it costs.
They didn’t. Wouldn’t that have been helpful?
Also not mentioned in the article: How much time it would take to re-coup savings. And how it might impact the cooling effects of A/C in the summer.
Since Parade Magazine is silent on these important issues — and my local Home Depot pro desk person never heard of ceramic powder additives for paint — I went trolling on the internet. I found a site that sells ceramic powder for paint– for roughly $12 for a one-gallon application. Another competitive product goes for about $15. And yes, the manufacturers say the stuff helps keep the house cooler in the summer, as well.
My problem: to get my hands on the stuff, I have to order it through the internet. It doesn’t appear that Sears, Home Depot, and Lowe’s carry ceramic powder for paint. And the painters begin tomorrow, so I guess I won’t be as energy efficient as I tried to be.
Frustrating. If the stuff really works, why don’t the big box stores carry it? With all the hub-bub about going green, you’d think that painters would know about ceramic additives. The lady at the pro desk at my local Home Depot was nice, but I could tell that she was getting swamped with calls about something she’d never heard of, either.
Thanks a lot, Parade Magazine. Next time, try publishing more useful winterization tips.
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Comments
Rita: just about everything I am hearing from my painters and construction pros is that the ceramic additives in paint is a scam — it doesn’t really do much of anything.
I suspect that Parade Mag did not thoroughly researc this — otherwise they would have included more helpful information.
I thought it was suspicious that Home Depot, Lowe’s, and Sears never heard of it!
Does anyone know if this product increases the sealing i.e. waterproofing capacity for paint. We have a large cedar shingle house with an historic background. I’d like to not put siding on it, but the shingles need to be sealed every few years.
Totally! The Parade article was an exercise in “hey, every magazine is printing winterization tips, so we need to do that, too!”
“…But every tip is the same as the next, so let’s pop in some “scoop” — but not really research it or provide relevant info.”
Maddening!
No retraction this week, either — in spite of numerous complaints at their website. That’s why blogs are so important — give somebody at the magazine the opportunity to respond immediately to the negative comments, for gosh sake!
Remaining silent in today’s wired world is just nuts!
From what I can tell, both Hy-Tech Thermal Solutions’ products –
http://www.hytechsales.com/index.html -and Insuladd’s – http://www.insuladd.com/ – are real products.
Both claim to be NASA spinoff companies. They Hy-tech product line is quite extensive, including clear coatings and pre-m ixed paint as well as simply additives.
From what I can tell in several days worth of queries — the painting industry is incredibly “NIH” not-invented here; extremely proprietary product oriented. Every painter I spoke with knows all about the paint they can get at a discount from their local supplier — and nothing else. Ask for a Fineneran and Haley color from Home Depot or Serwin Williams and “they will match it if you give them a sample.” DUH!
And from personal experience, I KNOW that the probability of getting accurate, if any, information from either Lowes or Home Deopt is slightly above nill!
It appears that these Ceramic Coating products are only 2 or 3 years old and as with all such things are covered by patents. This means that for the main-stream companies (MAB, SW, Velspar, etc) to provide a paint utilizing the technology requires that they negotiate a license for it, which directly impacts their bottom lines.
There is also a “local manufacturer/distributer in Minnesota and Wisconson – http://www.hirshfields.com/ceramic – although utilizing ceramic spheres from 3M, this product does not claim thermal properties, but stain resistance.
[...] Going green is all the rage. Maybe it’s the time of year — or maybe it’s just fashionable — but my post about using a ceramic powder paint additive in the office touched a nerve with my readers. People seem extremely interested in designing energy efficient home offices. You can also expect future posts on how to save energy costs in the home office in this blog. And finally, fashion. Except for a few unfortunate months where I worked out of a grim, grey office — I have been successfully working out of my comfy, colorful home office in Grand Rapids, Michigan since 1999. Grand Rapids, as you may know, is the home of office furniture. Office design is economically important to the West Michigan community. And our sense of style impacts the entire universe. [...]
Ceramics do work and work well. The RV crowd has been using them since they came out to keep the interiors cooler, the bus conversion crowd has also found that 2 or 3 coats of ceramic paint on there roof produces huge temp drops in summer. Bottom line is few things work as well as advertised but there are measurable results with ceramic additives that could not only produce energy savings but soundproofing as well.
Its a scam
I bought the Hy-Tech one
I liked the idea of microspheres, but its not working
I did many tests, cheap ordinary Behr white paint works much better
The company would not address my concerns
Thanks to Behr now my flat root section is much cooler in the summer!
So who do I believe? Paul? or Eds?
I have a room that is very warm and would like to try this insulating paint if it works.
I contacted Behr tecnical rep. and he didn’t have a clue, but he also added that they don’t have any vendors that have presented them with ceramic powders for insulation purposes.
Greg, The Hy Tech thermal paint ( insuladd whatever name) has to be a scam, these NASA claims and testimonals look pretty fake to me (i feel sorry for NASA’s reputation) i tried to review evidence and actual data and all i found was that very outdated paper with missing crucial info
and parameters
Look, if it was so magic they would not need any advertising it would just go from mouth to ear, no need to run a dozen copy-paste websites with a dozen different colors and fonts and buzz-words like the space shuttle
Yes we want to be green and save KiloWattsHours but there is only two basic rules:
1-white is white, that’s what reflects heat
2-air or vacuum thermally isolates
Adding microsheres in paint is wierd and will never be as efficient as a layer of foam, wool or fiberglass which is MUCH thicker than a layer or paint. The real improvement is if a surface is white regarless of microspheres present or not, if your roof is grey or black then yes it will heat much more and your attic can and AC will need to work more
i asked some painting contractors and staff at local hardware stores nobody has heard about tyhis thing, they suggested i stay away from it
JohnP
Thankyou for your unbiased answer. It appears to me that without data to back up a claim these are Vodoo insulators.
Thank you.
While JohnP’s answer may or may not be “unbiased” it is certainly not informed. Just the mention of foam or fiberglass shows that he has not done any research into how the ceramic products work. They work in a completely different way than standard insulation. This is why thickness has nothing to do with effectiveness.
As a contractor I found out about these type of products years ago. I did extensive testing after reviewing the technical information provided on at least one website (maybe John just wasn’t able to find it). What I discovered is that there are some products that work extremely well and some that are completely worthless. I used my own home as an experiment and lowered my utility bills by 32%. This is the reason I now incorporate these hy-tech products in my business, and have helped hundreds of customers save money as well.
Consumers who do their research before parting with their hard earned money should be applauded. On the other hand, merely making a determination simply because Home Depot or Sears hasn’t heard of it is simply foolishness. Too much faith put into simple employees of enormous corporations.
If you want to really read something that makes sense, visit Bill’s comment above.
My opinion is that the only people who say ceramic products don’t work are the ones who have used the copycat products, or (more than likely)haven’t used them at all. Forming an opinion about something you have no knowledge of seems foolish and irresponsible.
Parade magazine interviewed nationally recognized home improvement experts as the basis of their article. Perhaps lots of people didn’t even catch that (battract). These are pros who research and use products before they consider issuing a reccomendation. It’s the BeJane pros who advised about the Hy-Tech ceramics and that’s because they’ve used the products. Unlike so many who are quick to “think” they understand.
For those of us who have used the products, we will continue to pay less every month for utilities. For those who believe everything Home Depot or Sears tells them, just keep paying and paying. You’ll never know.
I can tell you I have used insuladd a few years ago on one of the houses I was remodeling. I live in Arizona and radiant heat from the ceilings in old homes can be quite bad if they dont have much insulation. When I was painting the ceiling in the kitchen the heat baking off the ceiling from up on the ladder was quite alot. I didnt measure the temp or anything but I could feel it and it was certainly enough to make me sweat. After finishing the painting with the additive, a few days later I went back up on the ladder to work on some overhead lighting in the same kitchen and same time of day with similiar outdoor temps 105+. It was very noticeably cooler after the additive. I will use it again on my current ‘old’ project house to help with the lack of insulation in the double brick exterior walls.
- Aaron
I bought my powder from HyTech and it’s working for me. I live in Northern Michigan and so far my house has been cooler and I spent less on electricity this summer and now it is warmer and using less propane.
I got quality paint from Sherwin Williams too. I am 67 and did all the 12 ceilings and the walls around the inside perimeter of my house by myself (with God’s help that is).
It works!
These ceramic microspheres, otherwise known as cenospheres, are just a waste byproduct of coal electricity generation plants. They’re just tiny glass orbs that are hollow inside. Hytech claims theirs even have a vacuum filled center vs. regular old air. Tap plastics near me even sells it in varying quantities as plastic/fiberglass filler material. Home Depot, Lowes and the like don’t carry a fraction of what is really out there. Those “home improvement” stores are too busy selling inflatable yard santas. 15 minutes of research online will yield more information than you ever wanted about these subjects.
If the cenospheres in my paint lower my utility bill by 5% the powder will pay for itself in under 2 years. After that it’s just money in my pocket.
There seems to be a lot of differing information on these type of paints. So, I’m going to do a test in my house I’m remodeling. I have (3) areas to test. (2) to keep out cold temperatures, and (1) to see if it can keep the heat in. I plan on doing a thorough test, with controlled IR temperature readings, measuring at the same time, same ambient conditions (as much as the weather will allow), etc. I’ll try to make it bullet-proof for argument, or at least to satisfy my meticulous nature. I will be more than happy to post my findings for discussion. It might take a couple weeks, but I should be done by the end of January 09.
There are 4 things to be concerned about wrt to
energy and paint:
1) barrier to air/moisture flow – not discussed here
2) R value – basically zero for anything as thin
as paint, vacuum beads or not
3) reflectance (ability to reflect infrared heat)
4) emissivity (ability to get rid of heat)
Although they vary, most white paints score high on
#3 & #4.
Very few dark paints score high on #3.
Some special coating used for solar panels score
low on #3 and #4 – ie, they absorb heat and don’t emit
it.
Something like aluminum is high on #3 and low on #4.
You want this on the underside of your attic roof.
My opinion – yes, the beaded paint works. But so
does white paint.
A good article on line is by the Dept. of Energy titled “Advanced Composite Coatings for Industries of the Future”. Also, a website called http://www.3.interscience.wiley.com explains visual reflectivity and infrared emissivity. Series: Ceramic Engineering and Science Proceedings. The insulation ceramic spheres provide are not like r-value we are used to. They block thermal conductivity and reflect infrared radiation. Not something the nice folks at the mega store service counters would be aware of.
Cool, huh!
This treehugger article states that it works:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/07/ceramic-insulating-paints.php
I’ve completed some testing. I’ll try and be brief, I look forward to any input on what people think is happening.
I painted (3) areas. (1) to keep warm air in, (2) to keep cold out.
1st area – (2) 3′ x 6′ sections of poured (basement) concrete wall. Temperature was 55 F. Painted (1) area with 2 coats of Behr latex primer/paint (what I had around), then (2) coats of Zissner 1-2-3 primer for white finish. Other side painted with (2) coats of Hy-Tech Alum. Barrier coat (temperature then measured 58F on this area, 55 on latex area). Then (2) coats of Hy-Tech Ceiling Paint. Temperature on both areas was then 55 F. Don’t know if infrared temperature was reflecting off of the aluminum paint or not. Also, wall seemed to be at 55 F as well.
Other cold area similar, much smaller area though. Probably not enough to tell.
Painted heating ducts. (3) areas @ 30″ x 16″. Left (1) area untouched, painted (1) area latex other (1) area Hy-Tech. Latex – 1 coat of Zissner 1-2-3 primer, 2 coats Behr primer/paint, 2 coats of Zissner 1-2-3 for white finish. Other area painted 1 coat Zissner 1-2-3 primer, 2 coats Hy-Tech Alum., 2 coats Hy-Tech ceiling paint. Measured all three areas similar times, charted. Noticed 6-7 Degree cooler difference in Hy-Tech area.
Not sure why HVAC duct showed positive and other areas didn’t. Possibly too small of areas, porosity with concrete. To confirm these results on HVAC duct, I will probably paint the area I had left with Hy-Tech, and then compare against readings before.
Thoughts?
What kind of duct was it, metal or flexible plastic? It might be a more conclusive test if you painted the whole wall with hytech, that way the thermal energy couldn’t come from the other painted areas. Thanks for posting your results, I appreciate the info!
Duct= thermal mass
Concrete wall=high thermal mass
Typical steel duct. It’s amazing how much heat loss those have, I see why they should be insulated.
I agree about the whole wall, the area is a bit small. I think I comprehend the thermal mass…the concrete wall has a higher propensity to keep the temperature out vs. the duct which I can first hand tell you transfers temperature big time. If you could elaborate on that and the relevance I’d appreciate it.
The whole basement is currently one large room, so I don’t know if painting one wall would lend itself to the same problem? Would I have to paint 50% or more of the total area exposed to the outside? Not sure if I have the time for a while.
very interesting topic and alot of conflicting results and opinions. I recently tried another insulation paint called nansulate and was very surprised with my results. Although its not recomended as an insulation system on its own it does claim to reduce heating and cooling cost from 20-40 % when added to any other system. I found that the furnace vents that i coated droped there surface tempature from burning me to warm to the touch with four coats and as the days go by it seems to be getting even cooler. I am wondering if anyone has any idea how this can be possible with such a thin layer a paint.
I just found the info about the Insuladd product on the NASA web site. Do a search on “Spinoff 2007″ and find info on joint venture products they have been involved with. This is the Hy-Tech product. It looks credible to me.
I think radiant barriers make sense:
1) on the outside to prevent solar heat gain
2) on the inside to reflect IR back to the occupants
3) to reduce heat flow where you have an air gap
#2 seems the rarest. If you covered all the
interior surfaces of a room with tin foil, a little bit of radiant heat would make it feel warm, even if the air and surface temps weren’t so warm. Might be ok for a garage.
After researching this for months….I am unimpressed. Big claims by these companies saying “Nano-thermos bottles in your paint!” You can buy this stuff at Tap plastics cheaper as cenoshperes, lightweight filler. Everyone’s got to make a living….. which reminds me, anyone interested in buying a bridge?
“I just found the info about the Insuladd product on the NASA web site. Do a search on “Spinoff 2007? and find info on joint venture products they have been involved with. This is the Hy-Tech product. It looks credible to me.”
Jim, I don’t think one product could have a better spokes person than a link on the NASA web page. Thanks for your input.
I am going to buy it and apply it. I will let you folks here know the results.
Thank you
Wow with so much information on green energy saving products, you would think larger companies would have had ceramic paints readily available. New applications of products take time for public availability. Well let me say first ceramic paints do work. They are not new! There applications have been expanded widely from roof applications to both interior and exterior paints. I have enclosed this link that clearly explains how it works. We have been using ceramic additives for a few years, most for commercial applications and a few residential projects with great success. Thanks Mike from Platinum Construction Services.
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I am also investigating the ceramic additive mentioned in the Parade article. Being in FL. it would be well worth it. Read it’s manufactured in Melbourne, Fl so if not at my Home Depot or Lowe’s will be making a trip. Too bad Parade wasn’t more informative.